Sunday, August 14, 2005

Attila the Hun, Rick the Santorum, and That Dammed Mainstream

I have big news. You might want to sit down for this.

Are you ready?

I’m moderating my views.

About a month ago, I was over at a friend’s house for dinner. She was wearing a shirt with a quote on the back. “It is not enough that I win. Others must lose,” attributed to Attila the Hun. (And yes, these are the kind of friends I have.)

”It’s not exactly Christian,” she said. “But I think it’s funny.”

Her father was a Republican strategist in Washington, and his firm printed the shirts up as something of a gag. Though sympathetic to the view (especially in light of the current political climate), I did not relish the thought of being sympathetic toward one of history’s most brutal tyrants. So I supposed a kinder, gentler phrasing would be in order. “It is not enough that I win. Others must lose gracefully.”

(Even though I am moderating my views, it is still important to remember that my point of reference is Attila the Hun.)

Then again, perhaps I should challenge the assumption that Attila the Hun would have been on the right side of the political spectrum. Being a conqueror would make him a totalitarian, which would make him an advocate for a powerful government, which would obviously make him a Democrat.

Come to think of it, I would not be to the left of Attila the Hun at all. I would be to the right—to the far right. So I guess I am not moderating my views at all. Disregard that whole bit about my having big news. What I am actually doing is clarifying.

And the word most abundantly in need of clarification in our current political lexicon would be “mainstream.” When Ted Kennedy praises the efforts of the so-called “moderate” Gang of 14 for being “mainstream,” one has to wonder why the senator did not join them if their cause was so noble. Would he, therefore, by his own definition, be “out of the mainstream”?

Recently, Senator Kennedy broke the rules of Senate decorum to call out Rick Santorum for something he wrote for an online op-ed page three years ago. Santorum, who has never been shy about expressing the Catholic faith or unable to realize the wisdom behind it, wrote, “It is no surprise that Boston, a seat of academic, political and cultural liberalism in America, lies at the center of the storm.”

Santorum was, of course speaking of the pedophilia scandal within the Catholic Church. The fact that the comment would bring such outrage, feigned or genuine, was surprising to me because Santorum was absolutely right.

The dioceses across the country that are the most liberal in terms of theology (liberal meaning to stray from the clear teachings of the Church) receive fewer vocations, face greater financial struggles, see lower attendance at mass, and have the most incidences of priestly abuse. We can argue cause or effect another time, but the correlation is just a plain fact.

At party a couple of weeks ago, I struck up a conversation with someone with whom I would soon realize that I had little in common. Believe it or not, I expressed few of my own views. (I didn’t even refer him to my blog.) Rather, believing him to be of good character, I genuinely wanted to understand his points of view, particularly his impression of Santorum’s comments, being that he was from Boston.

“Santorum said that the people of Boston deserved it,” he said in outrage.

There was no doubt that my new friend felt as though that was what Santorum said. What he actually said, though, was a different question. So when I got home, I googled Santorum, looking for his piece in its original form. What I found was a rude awakening.

Many of the websites attacking Santorum were so vile and disgusting that I hesitate even make mention of them, not wanting to inspire the slightest curiosity. But consider that if the former Senator from Nebraska, the Honorable Bob Kerrey, can suggest that “Santorum” must be “Latin for a**hole,” you can imagine how low those without honor would be willing to go. And the way they came at me was like porn pop-ups when I opened the wrong email or entered the wrong URL.

Here’s a note for you hardcore liberals out there. No one will be won over to your way of thinking by such vulgarity and hatred. Furthermore, not everyone thinks pornography is such a wonderful thing.

A note to rational people of any stripe, if you care to read Santorum’s comments for yourself, let me save you the trouble. http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=30

What Rick Santorum has said varies none from what the Catholic Church has long been saying. How these people can be shocked by that is truly shocking to me. When liberals speak of views that are “outside the mainstream,” these are the views of which they are speaking.

Those who fear I’m going to proselytize (or those who want me to) can relax. My point is only to put the Catholic Church in the context of history. The Church is not only the foundation for all Christian faiths, but Her impact on philosophy, art, and morality is without parallel. In fact, the Catholic Church has been the sole guardian of all Western thought throughout certain periods of history. Again, not a sales pitch, just a little something to consider when trying to define the concept of “mainstream.”

It used to be that Americans had a shared vision, though we may have had different views on how to achieve it. I do not believe that is true any longer. I believe the Left has so radically redefined its concept of America that it bears little resemblance to what we have long held sacred.

So, unable to win at the ballot box, the Left now seeks to redefine the boundaries and rules for debate. (Come to think of it, wouldn’t an election be an excellent indicator of what is or is not “mainstream”?) Those who hold to traditional values are viewed with suspicion, and those values are thought to be discredited as stemming from religious beliefs. They are, therefore, considered to be unfit for the public square—let alone the Supreme Court.

If the chairman of the Democratic National Committee can openly say, “I hate Republicans and everything they stand for,” ought we not ask what they think of the Church? Make no mistake about it, that which most angers, animates, and confounds the Left are the very issues that put them at odds with the Holy Catholic Church. No one knows this better than the junior Senator from Pennsylvania.

If liberals are unwilling to heed the warning of Rick the Santorum, perhaps they could learn something from Attila the Hun. In the mid-fifth century, Attila was pillaging Northern Italy, on his way to Rome. After a personal confrontation with Pope Leo the Great, he saw a heavenly vision of Saints Peter and Paul carrying swords. (The scene is depicted above the tomb of Pope Saint Leo the Great in the Basilica of Saint Peter in Vatican City.) Even Attila the Hun had the sense to turn back.

Whether or not liberals will find the same sense is a question for which we are all awaiting the answer.

61 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dan,
Santorum may be the junior senator from Pennsylvania, but you might add that he is the better senator from Pennsylvania.
Kurt

9:29 AM  
Anonymous David Huntington said...

Oh Dan,

Whatever else you espouse about the "mainstream" becomes weakened by this quick dissociation from Attilla:

"Being a conqueror would make him a totalitarian, which would make him an advocate for a powerful government, which would obviously make him a Democrat."

You take three pretty dubious steps to establish Attila as a Democrat. Look, I'm not going to slam Republicans or Bush at all here. Although I would have to observe that our current Republicn controlled government seems pretty "strong" to me. Does that make them Democrats? Oh perish the thought.

You cleary have a firm grasp on your conservative Catholic beliefs. You have very little grasp of what goes on in the hearts and minds of liberals. You are not alone. The characterizations cast about in columns such as yours seldom measure up to what we know to be true about our belief systems. You have made liberals the big bad boogey men who want to undue all that is right and good. Take off the war paint for a minute.

The Liberal mind has been part of this country's political fabric from the beginning. After the heady 60's and 70's, I'm sure it is due for a good conservative check. However, it is time to begin to let the anger and invective rest. Read your own Gospel. Jesus Christ was a rabble rouser who stood up to the conservative Caliphate. He preached about sharing your fortunes with the poor, turning the other cheek, loving your enemy, and loving your neighbor as yourself, not about "helping those who help themselves." He championed the losers of the Earthly realm. Jesus was a Liberal of the first order. He most likely would neither align with Repuiblicans or Democrats. Render unto Ceasar's that which is Ceasar's, right?

Jesus wasn't a very good politian. He clearly would never have won an election. But his words resonate long after his humiliating "defeat." Even to those of us who don't follow him as part of an organized religious doctrine. You talk about the teaching of the Catholic Church and call the Church the "sole guardian of Western thought." Well maybe so. But I'm not convinced Jesus himself is sole guardian of Western thought. I for one happen to think holding Him up as a shield for American hegemony is an ultimately ironic and cynical abuse of rhetorical brinksmanship - no matter how many votes it garners here in the dawn of the 21st century.

I will admit that your taunt will temper my invective against Senator Santorum. I don't agree with his stance on so many issues for which he is the mouthpiece. However, he is entitled to his beliefs. It's the people of Pennsylvania who have put him where he is and that is their right as conceived in our form of Government. The militant left could learn a lesson or two in tolarance of others' beliefs. So could the militant Right.

Liberals aren't the bad guys Dan. People who continue to whip dead horses are.

10:21 AM  
Blogger Dan O'Byrne said...

Oh Dave,

Always a pleasure to hear from you. As I read your reply, I can't help but smile. You are, without a doubt, my favorite liberal.

Sorry you missed the humor around Attila the Hun. I thought the quick link to Liberals was pretty funny, if I do say so myself.

Strength of government is relative, and the question is whether that strength if for the people or over the people.

As for the discussion of the teachings of Jesus, I'm just thrilled to hear a liberal would take a genuine interest. Since the last election, all there has been is an attempt to manipulate which is transparent and insulting to anyone of sincere faith. But it will take Dems another two and half elections to figure that out.

As for the rest of your comments, I say, "Huh?"

Am I beating a dead horse? If only the horse were dead.

I'd love to hear what you agree and disagree with Rick Santorum about. Would you read his book? Maybe I'm just starry-eyed with my admiration for you, but I think you'd probably agree with a whole lot of it.

Yours truly, Oh Dan

12:45 PM  
Anonymous david Huntington said...

Dan,

Allow me to pollute your blog once again. And thanks for the opportunity at dialog.
First, I'm your favorite Liberal? Ooh boy, is that like saying little Charlie Manson is my favorite serial killer?

As a matter of fact I did get your humor on Attilla the Democrat. You always accuse me of not getting your jokes. Better to just accuse me of not thinking they're funny.

As for strength of government being relative, now that may be the funniest thing I've read yet. I see that you'll take a nice strong government as long as it conforms to your belief system. How am I to learn anything from you conservatives if you haven't learned anything from the excesses of the system you want to overthrow.

As for Jesus. Uh, there are a lot of good liberals of faith. I'm not one of them, mind you. But as one who grew up with a fairly decent grounding in Sunday school parables, I hear a lot of "Jesus" out there, but I don't feel a lot of Jesus when all the rhetoric comes right out of Leviticus. And that takes me to Mr. Santorum. I'll gladly tell you where I part ways with him.

Take his whole stance on the sanctity of family as man, wife and children. I don't believe that the homosexual parantage of a family unit is a threat to our society. It may be a threat to someone's religious beliefs. And I would never ask anyone to practice anything out of their belief system. As long as they don't demand that I live in a world dictated by theirs.

But to call on thousands of years of "traditional" family as a defense of a religiously driven definition is as good as backing the clock up, oh, say a mere 150 years and saying that human civilization has been built on thousands of years of slavery. You could also look to the eons and find plenty of evidence in support of the subjugation of women, the divine right of kings, and taxation without representation.

I reserve the right for humanity to evolve. I think the American experiment has been a testament to all that can be achieved when we are allowed to challenge all the "rules" that came before. The discrimination against homosexuality is another in a long line of conservative foot dragging (dare I say knuckle dragging too) as we liberals take up yet another cause for the rich and varied human tapestry. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

I laugh when I hear conservatives rail against liberals who look to government to garner certain protections for "liberal" beliefs only to turn around and look to governement themselves to administer law from their religious beliefs. That may be the funniest part of all this.

And I'm not sure I said you, Dan, were beating a dead horse and thus a bad guy . But I do believe that to spend so much energy at this point and time taking shots at an obviously demoralized and frustrated Democratic party is a bit of bullying posture. Would you really like to live in a country with only one viable party?

4:18 PM  
Blogger Dan O'Byrne said...

Hey Dave,

It never occurred to me to liken you to my favorite mass murder (and for the record, I don't have one). Saying you are my favorite liberal only implies that I like more than one. Of the two, possibly three, you are my favorite.

The sad fact that not yet everyone in the world agrees with me is one I do recognize. But as long as people are going to disagree with me, I wish they could all be like you. So I hope you never think me unkind or unfair.

We can disagree and recognize those differences, and I think civility requires identifying where people disagree because what usually happens is that people realize they don't disagree as much as they think they do.

In that spirit, I can respect the spirit of challenging conventional wisdom, but to say that "all" rules are up fro grabs is dangerous. If we don't hold some boundaries, there is no truth and no point. A system in which everything is relative eats itself. Where would science be without the confines of a test tube?

Where conservatives get frustrated is when liberals want to try something (like socialism) that is known not to work. It's the idealism of the college kids that adults have to learn to harness, direct, and in some cases tolerate. But when adult liberals embrace the same kind of naiveté, it's just frustrating.

In the 60's, the belief was acid trips and narcotics could expand the mind. Yet when George Harrison visited Height-Asbury, all he saw was "a bunch of spotty faced drop-outs." He was 26 and had that much figured out. How many lives were ruined or lost before the rest of his generations came to the same conclusion?

As for homosexuality, it is a sad reality. No one discovers they're gay and rejoices. It almost always comes with horror and fear of rejection. I don't believe in the rejection any more than I believe in encouraging something that is never going to work. No amount of societal acceptance or social policy with assuage the pain comes from within.

That is the Catholic thought (and that of Rick Santorum, though not one offer acknowledged). The sad reality is that our culture is so screwed up sexually (due to a lack of boundaries and respect) that everyone suffers. This really warrants deep consideration, more than can fit in the comment section of this blog.

In short, the mistakes have all been made. Some people who feel the need to challenge everything are only going to make them again.

As for religion, ponder this. If there is a God and there is a design to the way we are made, would we not suffer consequences if we use our bodies for something other than what they were designed? Would you put oven cleaner in your gas tank or gasoline in your oven?

But Santorum's defense of the family is not based on religion as much as it is based on natural law and human history. We can discover that the hard way, or we can see that someone else already has. You might call that knuckle-dragging, I consider learning from the past to truly progressive.

As for my wanting one party, I don't. I believe in a two-party system. I just don't believe the Democratic Party in its current form should be one of them.

I see the GOP as what the Democrats used to be. The Dems successor would like be to the right of the GOP on some issues, to the Left on others. I would enjoy and welcome the debate. Hell, I might even back that party at times. I really just want to see a party that would recognize there is some truth in America worth holding onto.

You might think I’m wasting my time, and maybe I am. But I would like to think that someone will hear some of what I have to say, think about it, and that might make their life better.

Your friend,

Dan

10:42 PM  
Anonymous Danny from Houston said...

David and Dan,

Seldom do I read anything from a self-proclaimed liberal that is so calm and reasonable. You are clearly not a liberal (and by that I really mean Leftist).

You are correct in that our country's political fabric has been "liberal" from the beginning, but liberal had a different definition than it does now. The "classical" definition of liberal now belongs more to Conservatives than "modern" Liberals.

The time frame of the transformation of liberalism from classical to modern may be debated, but there is not much doubt that in the US, it culminated in the "heady 60's and 70's". Liberalism became full-fledged Leftism, and hasn't looked back. It hasn't always been this way, but today, right now, Liberalism, as Dan insinuates, is the enemy.

As long as people who consider themselves "progressive" and "liberal" walk around wearing Che Guevara t-shirts, they are neither liberal nor progressive. They are dellusional idealists who turn a blind eye to and glorify real human misery and totalitarian dictatorships, preferring to criticize the US for having a moral standard of justice.

Lets look at this statement:
"As for strength of government being relative, now that may be the funniest thing I've read yet. I see that you'll take a nice strong government as long as it conforms to your belief system."

Moral Relativism at it's finest... do you not see a difference between North Korea, or
Saddam's Iraq, and the US?

"Strong" governments use their strength in different ways. Some put their own citizens in prison camps, torture and rape women, and send political opponents down tree shredders or to mass graves by being machined gun down by the hundreds..

Others use force to protect their citizens against planes flying into buildings, suicide bombers, cutting off heads of live human beings on video, or nuclear annialition of a city.

Dan and I consider each other friends, although we've never met. We have something in common, yet we came to those beliefs through different means.
I am not "religious", yet I respect Dan's view's, because our moral beliefs are the same.
What I disagree with him on is tivial, unless you have an agenda which anything religious is bad.

Our mutual understanding and agreement is distrust in government (collectivism), and trust in the individual.

The Republican Party has it's demons, just as the Democrats do. There is a "religous right" with an agenda that is more Leftist than Rightist. Morals are a legitimate subject to discuss, but they cannot be legislated.

And that brings me to the reason I came here to respond in the first place... before I read David.

I will follow that up tomorrow if anyone cares to hear...

But David, ... please come to the light.. You are not a liberal...you think too clearly to be a liberal...you are one of us... let go... you will find new friends.

7:41 PM  
Anonymous David Huntington said...

Danny, Dan, Da Ta Ta Da,

Well maybe we're getting somewhere here. I don't know. Calm and reasonable? Thank you. You should have read me back during election season. November 2 exploded in my face and I immediately dropped the rope like a water skier who knows that he won't recover from the wobble in the waves of the American electorate. I am now slowly recovering the shattered pieces of beliefs that go me to this point and trying to figure out how to put them all back together in a more viable form.

The first issue is one of semantics. Conservative. Neocon, Liberal, Progressive, Hawk, Dove, Intellectual, Everyman, Red State, Blue State, small government, big goverment, taxation, wealth redistribution, secular, religious, you're either with us, or against us. I no longer know what they all really mean. I rebel against the enforced dichotomy of debate which has turned into a politics of personality that feels more like a sporting event than a dialog on what the hell we stand for.

You say I'm not really a liberal. I didn't know the definition was a moving target. Fine, I'll gladly let it go. It's just that other self proclaimed liberals often say so many things I agree with. I actually spend a considerable amount of time listening to talk radio and it makes me claim the mantle so much more aggressively. It hones my resolve. Your entreaty makes me feel like Luke Skywalker getting lulled to the Dark Side.

As for your comment on Moral Relativism. You have laid a trap that I have been in many times. To criticize US policy is not to defend Saddam Hussein, N. Korea or even France for that matter. C'mon. We're solely talking about the US. I hold my country to a higher standard than I hold any country on the face of the earth. I will admonish my child for being rude to a jackass for the same reason. That does not make me a defender of the jackass. It makes me teach my child to be a standard bearer on social discourse.

My criticisms of the US are in much the same spirit. I believe that most other "liberal" critics are acting from the same plane. But we are all caught in the trap of with us or against us. I belive the term is "America Firsters" or some such tripe. It's not that simple.

Whatever part of my mind that I thought was liberal has grown to distrust unchecked power. Sometimes, when we/I look at our government's actions, it feels like we are the one's with unchecked power who bestrode the known world like a collossus. I want a little more humility as a citizen country of the world.

9/11? There is no defence of this ridiculous tragedy. But it is a test. Just as the Oklahoma City bombing was. Or Eric Rudolph. That's right. We're growing them here at home too. But we've come undone in response. A desparate grasp at kicking a little ass just to show the world we won't be pushed around. We're not winning hearts and minds anymore. We're just showing that all our power has gone to our heads. You can't kill hate. You can only enlighten.

The terrorists won't win. Ever. They may kill a great many people trying. But acting on hate does not have an end game. I just don't believe it. And I am willing to give my life in that belief. I refuse to be taken in by paranoia. The only thing that can extinguish the light of freedom is one who holds the torch. To me, a bigger threat is swinging that torch around to violently trying to strike at the wind.

There is a big wind blowing in Iraq right now. And we have supplied the fuel to that fan.

Idiot wind, blowing through the buttons of our coats,
Blowing through the letters that we wrote.
Idiot wind, blowing through the dust upon our shelves,
We're idiots, babe.
It's a wonder we can even feed ourselves.

3:31 PM  
Anonymous danny said...

David, you have impressed me even more. The water skier analogy is definantly a classic.

I would like to respond to some of the points you made, which were very good, and if you are interested, we should do it email... jsheives@houston.rr.com ...(this is not meant to exclude you Dan, I would gladly have you as part of the discussion too).

But let me just hint at something for the moment:

My family was strangly very non-political. I never heard political talk growing up, and schools back then (I'm 44) did to yet indoctrinate young minds the way they do today. The only political influences I had were the Beatles and other 60's and 70's musicians. I remember after Reagan was elected president I thought for sure he would bring back the draft and I had full intention of moving to Canada.

When I was around 22 I read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. That really influenced me, and I became conservative and really interested in politics. So my political beliefs came pretty much "on my own". My influences were books I chose to read, not from family or friends who influenced me. I tell you this because I suspect you did not become a liberal "on your own". Either your parents or a close friend early on "taught" you to be a liberal, and also taught you that being otherwise is ignorant, stupid and hypocritical.

I have spent the last 20+ years fascinated with "Left" and "Right" political thought. David, your writing and thinking from the very beginning just did not strike me as "Left". That would probably explain why you are Dan's "favorite Liberal". You think and reason like a conservative, but come to a different conclusion, and, in my humble opinion, is based on a pre-conceived outcome.

My email is above. I leave it up to you to choose if you want to continue this conversation.

Regards,

Danny

6:10 PM  
Blogger Dan O'Byrne said...

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the comments. I would be remiss if I didn't find some way of saying, "I feel your pain." So let me start there. Secondly, and no less important, you get extra credit for quoting Dylan, even if I totally disagree with your application.

I get the sense that your struggle following the election was internal, a struggling to come to terms with your own values and beliefs and where they fit in with your party and your country. I had a similar reckoning, though not as painful, for obvious reasons.

For me the disillusionment came before the election, and I was dismayed at how many people could hold such anti-American views. Some may reflexively accuse me of implying that anyone who would disagree with me is un-American, but I know you won’t resort to that. Instead, I believe that you, too, if only privately, must be dismayed at some of what has happened to your party. Where I would like to see those elements eradicated, you may still be struggling to come to terms with, or even admit, their existence. Am I wrong?

I am and am not surprised that you listen to talk radio. If I were a liberal, I couldn’t hack it. In truth, I consider most of it to be vexing and dangerous to the soul, even when they are often expressing opinions I’m inclined to agree with. If they are hardening you in your resolve, I have to think someone is doing something wrong. In this instance, I’m going to side with you.

I do want to comment on your citation of Bush’s “with us or against us” comment. (You may know this is another commonly used expression that comes out of the Bible. But I’ll have to get back to that in a second.) I think Bush was right in the context. He was recognizing that there are terrorists around the world. Nations could either help us route them out or they could hide them. There really was no room for fence-sitting.

The Taliban’s initial response was to say “not our problem,” and let OBL remain in hiding. To which Bush said, and wisely, “Wanna bet?” I think he was right then, as did virtually everyone, and I think he’s right still. Were Afghanistan the only problem, it would have been an easy war. The only factor that has changed is our resolve. Who’d of thunk Americans would turn fickle. John Kerry and OBL for two, but I digress.

In two separate Gospels, though in similar contexts, Jesus says what appears to be similar things, though I believe them to be quite different. “For whoever is not against us is for us. (Mark 9:40).” And “Whoever is not with me is against me (Luke 11:23).”

One assumes the uncommitted to be potential allies, the other potential threats. Yet both statements are to be taken as the “Gospel truth,” though they do appear mutually exclusive.

To me, one allows for hope, a conversion of heart, if you will, that will enable people to join the cause. The other seems to suggest that definite battle lines have been drawn, and there is really no one who can stay in the middle. One represents the approach I (and Danny) take with other, perhaps you; the other is a stance Bush, and I believe all of us, should adopt.

8:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you kidding??? If we could get people, including yourselves, to devote half as much energy to communication, attempting to understand view points (that differ from your own) and cooperation, we could truly make a difference in this world.

Shouldn't we look toward the many positive leaders of our collective churches, namely Jesus, as an example? An example that we should truly follow. We must put our efforts into impacting society in a positive way, making a difference in the face of poverty, bigotry, the lack of education, and disease, instead of sitting around talking about who is right and wrong and how different we all are.


Gentlemen, please, let's roll up our sleeves and get something worthwile done!

12:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Anonymous,

Are you suggesting that we should act before determining what is right and wrong? Or do you prefer to not acknowledge such things?

If you were going to take a trip, would you just drive or would you determine a course first?

Years ago, I heard an outraged AIDS activist blame the first President Bush for not making experiemental vaccines more available. When I pointed out that the origin of AIDS may have been an experimental vaccine for polio, he did not know what to say.

Had he just "rolled up his sleeves" and acted without deference to such concerns, he could have caused untold damage to people he genuinely intended to help.

Just a little something to think about.

JAS

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